Zumrik/Zummer?

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Zumrik/Zummer?

Príspevok od užívateľa GZIPAY » 29 Nov 2017, 21:09

Používam prekladač Google na predloženie mojej otázky, ale bude obsahovať aj anglickú verziu, pretože ľudia môžu prekladať ľahšie. Mám otázku týkajúcu sa priezviska Zumrik. Moja prababička prišla do Spojených štátov z Nemesany pri Levoči. Moju rodinu som v tejto oblasti spätne sledoval až do roku 1817. Pravdepodobne skôr, keď verím, že jej prastarý otec bol dvakrát ženatý. Zdá sa však, že okolo roku 1800 sa nezobrazuje názov Zumrik. Samozrejme, že Zumrikovia sa mohli presťahovať do oblasti, ale Family Search nemá mnoho Zumrikov indexovaných pred 1800. Keď som manuálne skenoval záznamy Levoča pred rokom 1796 hľadajúc nejaký Zumrik, najbližšie môžem nájsť s týmto menom Zummer , Szumer alebo Szumera. Dátumy a mená pre tieto sa mierne zhodujú s možným rokom narodenia pre predkov. Zaujímalo by ma, či sa Zummer nejako zmenil na Zumrik? Viem, že je nepravdepodobné, ale na mŕtvom konci. Ďakujem


I will use Google Translate to pose my question but will also include an English version since it may be easier for people to translate. I have a question about the last name of Zumrik. My great grandmother came to the United States from Nemesany near Levoca. I have traced her family in that area back until 1817. Probably earlier since I believe her great grandfather was married twice. However it seems that around 1800, the name Zumrik doesn't appear. Of course the Zumrik's could have moved into the area but Family Search doesn't have many Zumrik's indexed prior to 1800. When I have manually scanned the Levoca records prior to 1796 looking for any Zumrik, the closest I can find with that name is Zummer, Szumer or Szumera. The dates and names for these do somewhat fall in line with a possible birth year for an ancestor. I am wondering if Zummer somehow changed into Zumrik? I know its unlikely but at a dead end. Thank you



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Re: Zumrik/Zummer?

Príspevok od užívateľa patricius95 » 29 Nov 2017, 21:49

Hello,
I will try to answer your question. In future, if you'd like to address us with your questions related to the genealogy, it would be good to provide us with links to the earliest records, that you've found. If you gave us links to those records, we could've studied them ourselves. As for your question, Zumrik could be 'diminutive' of surname Zumer (or Szumer / Szumera) with the meaning 'son of Zumer'. Adding of such suffixes was typical for creation of surnames in Slovakia in the past. We could easily compare it with the Scandinavian suffix '-son', e. g. Johansson (= Son of Johan).
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Patrik Zakarovský

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Re: Zumrik/Zummer?

Príspevok od užívateľa GZIPAY » 30 Nov 2017, 14:15

I wanted to wait to send any links because I didn't know if somebody would say "Zummer and Zumrik are different you idiot." :-)

So here are my links that make me think they could be the same. My apologies on how long this is. I realize that I am taking some liberties which I typically don't like to do.


So I have a relative named Stephanus Zumrik. He was born to a Michael Zumrik and a Maria Koritko in the Levoca area. Year was 1817

For reference sake here is his baptism record (left side before 1818)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1554443

There are other kids born to this marriage which matches the parents.

Now here is where things get a little dicey. He seems to be the first kid born so when trying to find a marriage record in this and surrounding areas, here is the best match (3 down from 1817)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1554443

Groom matches. Bride however seems to have the first name of Cath for Catherine. I have thought, maybe its a recording error. Maybe its for Catholic (even though none of the other records have that) or just maybe its not the right couple? However then again it maybe due to his age of being 45. Means this most likely is 2nd marriage.

So searching for a Michael Zumrik having kids in the same area prior comes up with this list
https://www.familysearch.org/search/rec ... me%3Amaria*~

So a Michael Zumrik had kids with a Maria Matvej or some variation in the same area. Witnesses/Godparents for the kids of both couples match. Joannes and Anna Racsznak(spelling) are listed for both sets of kids. So I assume this Michael is the same Michael. However I can't find a death record for a Maria Zumrik/Matvej from the last kid in 1811 up the first kid Michael had with Maria Koritiko in 1817. So another issue with that.....

So now maybe I can find a marriage record? The best I can find is this which isn't much and is stretching things.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1554443

Michael and Maria Matvej had a kid named Maria in December 1796. So the best match prior to that is the 2nd record in 1796. However its Michael Szumera and Maria Matega. Well not sure if that is Mataja. Very dicey here. However I have seen Matvej's 10 years later in Almas. I have not found any kids for this marriage. Anyway not confident with this but I am wondering on the name now if it evolved to a degree.

With the 2nd marriage record, it listed Michael as being 45 which puts his approximate birth year in 1772. Scanned through he years before and after and found this.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1554443

4th record on left. Michael Zumer. Its a few years earlier than 1772 with it being 1868. However best match I have found. I have also found siblings of this Michael here with variations of the last name.

Anna - 7 down right side
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1554443

George - 2nd down on right.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1554443

This is why I was wondering about the possible name change. I don't see anything resembling Zumrik prior to the birth record of Maria in 1796. Of course I have not look everywhere but unless this name originated in else where and they arrived in 1796, it may have changed. Definitely not a popular name in fact looks to be the most unpopular of any of my ancestor surnames.

Dakujem

Glen

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patricius95
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Re: Zumrik/Zummer?

Príspevok od užívateľa patricius95 » 30 Nov 2017, 14:53

I've reviewed the records, that you've added. Godparents of children from both Mathias Zumrik seem to be the same (John Rusnak and Mary Rusnak), which points to the fact, that it is the same person. I do believe, that the first wife of Mathias Zumrik was mistakenly written-in as Elizabeth Zumrik, who died od Aug 15, 1816 (right side, in the middle) at the age of 40.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1554443
I don't know, why her first name was mistakenly written as Catherine during the wedding, but I have found several such cases in other vital records. It isn't as uncommon, as you might think.
It seems to me, that all the records fit to the same person. As written previously, Zumrik could really mean 'son of Zumer', while Szumera could be just another transcriptional form of the same surname.
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Patrik Zakarovský

GZIPAY
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Re: Zumrik/Zummer?

Príspevok od užívateľa GZIPAY » 30 Nov 2017, 16:48

I am not using Google translate for this. From my very limited (but growing) Slovak vocabulary

Dakujem ti velmi pekne

Glad my thought process wasn't that out of line. Really quick question and this is for a friend and most likely relative, (do not have links) but is Ondruss and Ondriss the same? I would assume yes most likely due to clerical errors or from what the name sounded like.

That said, many thanks for the response.

Glen

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Re: Zumrik/Zummer?

Príspevok od užívateľa patricius95 » 30 Nov 2017, 17:01

Both those surnames refer to a domestic version of first name George (Ondrej in Slovak), from which these surnames are derived. Without additional data, I can only tell, that such surnames could refer to the same person, but they don't neccessarily have to. If both surnames were common at the same time, I'd say those were two different family-names. However, if you can prove alterations between use of these surnames with the same person, then it could be the same case, as the one with Zumrik and Zumer.
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Patrik Zakarovský

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